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Subject Re: 5 Turn points
Thread Number 8 of 8 in thread
Author David Masson
Posted 18-Jan-19 09:12:00
  The idea of multiple laps was always there, but not implemented.

The maths of shape factors works if you extend the number of turnpoints - without breaking the scoring. If we allowed 5, 6, ... I would not object and don't think it would break anything if we did, but there comes a point where it gets a silly. The ability to do 2 laps of a triangle at least is quite appealing.

However multiple laps is also quite appealling as it is quite simple. As I said, we never did implement multiple laps as originally intended. The idea was to allow contiguous laps. ie: you start once, do two (or more laps) laps, finish and claim 2 laps for the total time.

Actually me and John Bridge did some work winter 2015/16 and what we did worked and look very promising, but I had too much on and it fell by the wayside again.

I will share the emails from back then with Chris Fox and see what he thinks. I imagine he has done quite a lot of work on the ladder and might what to leave it for now...? I will see what he thinks...

It would be nice to see lots of laps of a 100km triange, 3 laps of a 300km triangle, a 1,500km multiple lap wave flight or 1,000km on the Southdowns ride on the ladder WITHOUT get too many points for it!!!


**On 12 Jan 19 12:01 Chris Fox wrote:**

Well, the software won’t reject two laps of the same task flown on the same flight entered as two separate ‘flights’.

But the LoadIGC facility won’t deal with that situation so you’d have to enter the flights the old fashioned way.

Does that help?


**On 12 Jan 19 11:01 Mark Lawrence-Jones wrote:**

Hi All,

I wonder if we're confusing two things here.

I thought that the original poster wanted to be able to declare a single task of two laps of a triangle e.g. Start at TP1, TP 2, TP3, TP1, TP2, TP3, finish at TP1. This would need 5 turn points in addition to a start and finish.

But I think that that Sant is discussing declaring a task, then doing that task two or more times, as permitted by rule 4. E.g. start at TP1, TP2, TP3, finish at TP1. Repeat.
In this case each lap is entered as a separate completed task. There shouldn't be a challenge to the software since each completed lap is entered separately.
Or does the software reject two or more similar flights on the same day?

Best wishes,

**On 07 Jan 19 12:01 Santiago Cervantes wrote:**

Hi Chris,
That's good enough for me.
Its early days with the new ladder and again, much appreciation for all the hard work that's gone into it.
Hopefully a solution will eventually be found to get round the IT problem.
Lets hope that we all get the weather for really big/fast tasks rather than "significant" (?) multiple task ones.

**On 07 Jan 19 07:01 Chris Fox wrote:**

Morning Sant,

No, the rules haven't changed but the IT has.

I have no wish to restrict the very enterprising flying you guys do! But I'm afraid the ability to submit multi lap flights just didn't make it into the new system.

If you have such flights to submit, contact me and I'll find a way to make it work. If there are enough of them, I'll fix the IT -

As for rule changes - I think it could best be described as 'collegiate', with the National Ladder Steward getting a casting vote....

Best, Chris

**On 07 Jan 19 07:01 Santiago Cervantes wrote:**

Morning Chris,
I'm a bit confused. Looking at the rules ( rule 4) it appears that multiple laps are still an option.
Are we saying that we Scottish lads doing two 750 km 4 points flights (plus the start & finish) task in a Discus is no longer available 'cos that is not enterprising? Equally of merit could be two 500km thermal triangles in a single flight down south in a restricted weather area.
It appears to me that under the current rules the ladder still allows a multiple 4 points (plus a start/finish) task as an option.
Can you confirm that the new system supports this?
With regards to rules changes how are amendment/changes to rules arrived at?
Lastly. thanks for all your work in getting the new system up and running it was a big job.
Best regards,
Sant Cervantes
SGU Ladder Steward and multiple lap flyer.

**On 02 Jan 19 18:01 Chris Fox wrote:**

Hello Robert ,

Multilap tasks were implemented in the Ladder during the pylon-racing days of the Foot n Mouth epidemic.

Since then they have barely been used and this new version of the ladder doesn't support them.

A key part of the Ladder's ethos is to encourage enterprising flying limiting the number of TPs is a deliberate part of that, to tilt the scoring in favour of covering larger areas of the country rather than banging up and down ridges or running repeatedly around smaller tasks.

So I'm afraid the anwer on this one is no.

Happy flying in 2019!


**On 28 Dec 18 09:12 Robert E.D. Bailey wrote:**

To allow a Triangle to be circuited twice allow 5 turn points .


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